Lee Elder

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Posts by Lee Elder

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  19

  Blood Transfusions and Pedophilia

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ajwrb was approached early on about working together on these issues.

  we took a hard look and opted out for ethical and pragmatic reasons.

  though the issues share a common thread (child abuse), they have to be approached in different ways.

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  Lee Elder

  Island Woman wrote:

  <The Bible does speak of avoiding the eating of blood, JWs extend that application to transfusions; a religious decision. IMO, the current practice in the medical community to take each case individually; at times forcing a transfusion on some children and at other times allowing a "mature" young person to decide what they will or will not accept, is about as good as it will get or should get.>

  When children are involved, including "mature minors" it is our position that physicians should make every effort to provide necessary medical care. The issues involved are very complex, the children have been fed incorrect information regarding blood by their parents and the Watchtower Society and they are under coercion and duress. Many of them, perhaps a majority, will eventually leave the WTS anyway.

  <Medicine is not an exact science, at times it has injured almost as many as it has helped. People must have the right to refuse any treatment they do not want, and religion must be allowed the right to practice as it sees fit, within the law.>

  No one in AJWRB wants to force blood on adult Jehovah's Witnesses. We do want physicians to take reasonable steps to insure that they are making an informed choice. We want physicians to question the validity of the WTS wallet sized advanced directive because some JWs sign them under duress and in an emergency actually would prefer to receive blood if their doctors assure them confidentiality.

  Additionally, the legal issues are not as clear as some may believe. Remember that we have a religious organization passing out what amounts to very specific medical advice about which parts of blood may and may not be used. We have at least one country (Bulgaria) with a different standard for its JW members (no wallet sized advance directives for minors and no controls or sanctions for members who accept blood), and finally we have wholesale dismantling of the policy in process. I believe there are any number of JW leaders who know the WTS is systematically disentangling itself from the blood policy. It may be just a matter of time before a smoking gun appears in the form of internal documents or memos. Should that become available, I believe we could very well see some folks in the organization facing criminal charges - and rightly so. At some level, this is reckless, gross disregard for human life.

  <The answer is education, education, education, which is what you and others are doing and I thank you very much for that!>

  Education is the single most important thing we can do. When we started five years ago, I was amazed at how many former JWs still hung on to the WTS blood policy. Today it is a rare case to find such an opinion. Additionally, we have opened many eyes in the medical community and among active JWs.

  The trend is clear and when the hemoglobin solutions hit the market many lives will be saved and many questions will have to be answered by WTS leaders.

  Change is in the air.

  Lee
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  19

  Blood Transfusions and Pedophilia

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ajwrb was approached early on about working together on these issues.

  we took a hard look and opted out for ethical and pragmatic reasons.

  though the issues share a common thread (child abuse), they have to be approached in different ways.

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  Lee Elder

  Nancee Park wrote:

  "I spoke with a medical doctor last month. She has JWs friends and out of respect for
  them believes it right to not give transfusions to JWs, yes, including JW kids! So you
  have not "won" the debate with all the medical community. This unbiblical (Mt 12) and
  dangerous anti-transfusion stand of the Watchtower Society since the 1960s has killed
  many, still does, and still needs publicised including outside of medical journals for
  example by letters to the doctors themselves. You disagree and won't take it to the
  public. So be it for yourself. But don't be surprised when others do."

  I believe you have misunderstood my remarks. If you review my comments you'll note that I was
  speaking of the medical ethics community, not the medical community in general.

  We have made any number of attempts to take the blood issue to the media and have some good
  results in a few countries like Canada, Columbia, Finland and a few others. The U.S. media has
  never showed much interest. It is like the religion editor for the L.A. Times told me, "the WTS lying
  about its doctrines and policy isn't news." Shocking but true.

  As for writing letters to doctors, the physicians associated with AJWRB have told us that the typical
  physician is inundated with correspondance and solicitations and that the vast majority is tossed
  into the waste can without being opened.

  We do not discourage others from writing letters but simply pass on the best information we can
  about what works best.

  Best regards,

  Lee
• 
  19

  Blood Transfusions and Pedophilia

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ajwrb was approached early on about working together on these issues.

  we took a hard look and opted out for ethical and pragmatic reasons.

  though the issues share a common thread (child abuse), they have to be approached in different ways.

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  Lee Elder

  AJWRB was approached early on about working together on these issues. We took a hard look and opted out for ethical and pragmatic reasons. Though the issues share a common thread (child abuse), they have to be approached in different ways. Ultimately, we felt direct linkage would detract from the work we are trying to do and that the pedophilia problem required immediate and separate action.

  The process of getting the public to agree that children should not be sexually abused and that their abusers should not be sheltered is very straightforward.
  The process of getting the public to agree that Jehovah's Witnesses should not have the right to refuse a blood transfusion is impractical. The necessary arguments are technical and very focused, and the right forum is the medical community.

  Any attempt at hyperbole or sensationalism is quickly shot down by peer reviewed medical journals. However, through careful analysis we have been able to construct solid arguments that resulted in the WTS losing the blood debate in the medical ethics community. This was a victory for AJWRB but it will take years for this to filter down through the other medical communities.

  There is something else to bear in mind as well. When we talk about the victims of the WTS blood transfusion policy, we are usually talking about dead people. There are no victims to place in front of a TV camera and interview. Additionally, how many JW parents are prepared to come forward and talk about the incredibly painful mistake they made in deciding to sacrifice their child? I know of perhaps one ex-JW woman who might consider doing something like that but to do so she must risk effectively ending her relationship with her other believing JW children. She's been through enough - I would never ask that of her.

  So unlike the pedophilia issue, the blood issue by its unique nature does not lend itself well to use of the media - we will never have an Erica Garza. The identities of living JW minors cannot be used and most who need medically necessary blood transfusions go to an early grave. Sadly, we know that probably half of these kids that have died supporting the WTS irrational blood transfusion policy would have grown up and left the WTS anyway - how tragic that some court did not intervene and give them a chance to live. Here we have hundreds, perhaps thousands of permanently "Silent Lambs" in the ultimate sense - they will never roar. They were "small sacrifices" to the WTS blood transfusion policy.

  As you can see from the recent "Shunned Father" story, this is an expensive issue for JW dissidents and other concerned individuals to address. Huge amounts of money are needed to take on the WTS and its mini army of volunteer attorneys. Medical communities must be lobbied, expensive and time consuming research is needed to publish articles in major medical journals like NEJM, JAMA, etc. Costly presentations must be made to medical professionals at conventions. Legal research needs to be done and cases must be won in the courts.

  All of this is going to take a great deal of time and money. If I were a wealthy man, I'd happily part with those funds to make all of this happen. Unfortunately, I am not. A handful of individuals have made some significant contributions to AJWRB that enabled us to print thousands of brochures, put on two major medical conferences and open a lot of eyes, but much more can be done if the resources become available to us. Ultimately, that is up to individuals like the readers of this forum.

  The WTS blood policy can be shaped by outside forces like AJWRB but it requires skill, resources and time. A common thread between the Pedophilia issue and the blood transfusion issue (child abuse) exists, but the approach to dealing with these issues is radically different. AJWRB genuinely appreciates the support that has been provided through this forum and we'll continue to do our best to educate both JWs and the medical community with the goal of insuring that all JWs have a free choice in their medical care without fear of WTS enforced sanctions that can separate them from their family members and friends.

  Best regards,

  Lee
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  13

  Blood Transfusions - "One Shot Deal"

  by Dutchie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've just been reading the watchtower's blood policy and i think i've got it.

  the wtbtss give you a "one shot" deal.

  if you accept a blood transfusion once and express sorrow and regret, you're forgiven and can remain in good standing.

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  Lee Elder

  If your analyzing the WTS policy with respect to judicial action and
  the cessation of disfellowshiping over the blood issue, I believe the
  motivation on their part is along the following lines:

  1. Reduce tension between the WTS and some of the European governments.
  2. Reduce the potential for liability (risk management)
  3. Pave the way for further modifications to the policy
  4. P.R. "We haven't DF anyone for taking a blood transfusion in ____ years.
  We provide pastoral care for those who have followed a course that is not
  in harmony with God's word but some by their actions make it clear that they
  no longer want to be associated with the organization, blah, blah, blah.

  You can find more detail and analysis on the ajwrb web site at:

  http://www.ajwrb.org/basics/breaking.shtml

  Lee
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  11

  Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sacrifice

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  jehovahs witnesses and child sacrifice .

  for the most part jehovahs witnesses are viewed in their communities as law abiding citizens and neighborly.

  most of us would never imagine that this religious organization of people teach and promote a theology which, in effect, sacrifices lives, even of children.

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  Lee Elder

  That the leaders acknowledge the sacrifice of these children is
  evidenced by the way they are glorifed in WT publications, effectively
  hailed as modern day martyrs.

  Lee
• 
  16

  Do You Really Want Reform, Or...

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...do you want an end to the entire organization of jehovah's witnesses?.

  i'm guessing there is so much money involved, we couldn't hope to see an end to them, but that's what needs to happen imho.

  after all, jim and tammy faye bakker had lots of money associated with their church, and a theme park complete with hotels to boot and they're all gone.

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  Lee Elder

  The WTS will as in the past continue to change and
  remake itself in order to survive. Call it reform
  or whatever you wish to call it but in my opinion
  the WTS will be around for a very long time. They
  have a marketable product that millions of people
  want. Like other corporations, they will change their
  product when the market or the government demands
  change. Oh they'll fuss about it, turn loose the spin
  doctors to say it isn't so, but in the end, "light
  will flash up", and the modern day ark of Jehovah
  will slowly "tack" in the wind. For those who step
  out of the ark, however, they'll find that they
  don't drown because there isn't any water after all ;-)

  Lee
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  12

  Thanks for the support, a farewell

  by mikepence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had resolved in my mind to leave the world of witnesses and former witnesses behind.

  then september 11th happened, and this community was a wonderful support.

  then the un fiasco happened, and i was amused.

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  Lee Elder

  sorry we never got together - best wishes for a bright
  and prosperous future

  Lee
• 
  3

  One JW reaction

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i spoke with one brother who is still active this morning.

  he tells me that there is a major.

  reaction among some jws - especially sisters.

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  Lee Elder

  I spoke with one brother who is still active this morning. He tells me that there is a major
  reaction among some JWs - especially sisters. One in the congregation who had been
  raped when very young (not a JW at the time) was nearly hysterical to learn that this
  kind of thing went on in the organization. He was on the phone till nearly 1 A.M. trying
  to help her.

  I think it is very difficult to gauge the impact and as this one incident illustrates, this kind
  of thing opens old wounds and is liable to stir up a significant reaction - especially among
  victims or those who have had experienced similar trauma. I imagine that some elders
  will be very busy and the boys in service will probably be overwhelmed.

  Let's just hope that the pedophiles will be forced to find another refuge.

  Lee
• 
  7

  Children, Advice, Agency and $$$$$$$

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society has occupied an enormously important place in the lives of millions.

  i believe this is especially true for those raised in the religion.

  based on the wts published statements, the teaching of wts representatives and their parents, jw children are methodically indoctrinated to believe that the watchtower is god's organization - his channel for communicating with mankind.

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  Lee Elder

  The costs associated with a legal challenge are enormous. It will take a very special
  set of circumstances to put these actions into play but it is being done on the pedophilia
  issue already and my belief is that we will see more - perhaps many more actions
  in the future, especially if some precedents are won.
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  21

  Here is the plan

  by the follower in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok... here is the plan.

  i moved to this congregation years ago, but when i came it was the same secretary then as it is now.

  when i arrived he just said "here is my address, give it to the secretary in your old congregation and tell him to send me your records.

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  Lee Elder

  The system can be manipulated. Some pedophiles have probably worked it very well. I'm not inclined
  to post how someone can permanently obtain their records for that reason. Instead, I would suggest
  the following. Choose a congregation that is some distance from where you live. Start attending meetings
  there and ask for your records to be moved - then just fade away. The elders will quickly grow tired of
  making long drives to "shepherd" you. If they try to move your records back tell them that you were stumbled
  by the brothers at that hall and want nothing to do with them. That should do it in most cases.

  Lee